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traffic circles

Started 7 months ago by StuInMcCandless 24 posts Latest reply from Lyle

StuInMcCandless

bossanova

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Posted 7 months ago

I was going to post this in the moving-our-office thread, but it deserves its own.

One thing that would calm traffic, and is in short supply in the Pgh area, is traffic circles, i.e., roundabouts.

Where I come from (East Aurora and South Buffalo, NY), there are several circles that work amazingly well and haven't physically changed in decades.

For the East Aurora one, note how busy that area is: adjacent to a McD's, a Tim Horton's and a gas station, and at the junction of three numbered highways.

For the South Buffalo one, note how densely populated the area is, as well as having the largest hospital for 10 miles around, and a college, just a block north. There are two additional circles just to the south, which also work very well.

What experiences have any of the rest of us had with traffic circles, good or bad, bike or car or pedestrian?
helen s

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Posted 7 months ago

I always love watching the Tour go around them, with some riders taking either side.
I have driven them sucessfully- they seem a bit weird, but work pretty well- at least everone is going the same direction. Seems to me I read somewhere they are good for keeping traffic flowing and for fuel economy.
Chris Mayhew

bossanova

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Posted 7 months ago

There's one in South Park that is an abomination. The colloquial rules surrounding how it works are a nightmare.

I loved them in Europe. I had a guy slam on the brakes to give me right of way coming into one, it was surreal.

Like a lot of things, it's about driver education.
dwillen

bossanova

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Posted 7 months ago

I love circles. They're awesome. Please forgive the following cynicism.

In Pittsburgh many drivers don't stop for red lights or stop signs, how many of them would yield to the traffic in the circle? It would be a huge mess. Traffic devices dependent on the friendliness of drivers won't work when many of the users are road-raging, aggressive jagoffs.

On my bike in a bike-friendly city, I've had plenty of drivers pass me within a circle and cut me off trying to exit the circle. I can't imagine how many cyclists would be slaughtered here.
joeframbach

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Posted 7 months ago

First let's add another 80 more difficult questions to the driver license test, make re-testing mandatory, then we'll discuss this.
StuInMcCandless

bossanova

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Posted 7 months ago

Question #1: What does a Yield sign mean?
(a) Slam on brakes, even if nobody can be seen coming from any direction [maybe call this "The Pittsburgh Yield"]

...
sloaps

bossanova

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Posted 7 months ago

I like to think that George Washington designed the first roundabout in the area down in Perryopolis . Currently, it just a circular junction - eightway stop...
alankhg

bossanova

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Posted 7 months ago

There's that one at Thomas and Linden with stop signs. I like to run those out of principle.
ieverhart

frequenter

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Posted 7 months ago

The circle at Reynolds and Homewood in Point Breeze is very good at calming traffic there... of course this is like my tiger-repelling amulet keeping tigers away from me here in Shadyside. (It's at the intersection of two pretty quiet streets.)
greenbike

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Posted 7 months ago

I think that traffic circles are a good idea, but you'd have to instruct people on yielding etiquette. While they were all over the place in England when I was there (and worked pretty well), people here don't seem to understand the concept of yielding. I could see this being especially the case here in Pittsburgh, where there are stop signs and not yield signs on the freeways (bizarre).

Still, I do think that they are good for keeping traffic flowing (albeit at a low speed) and for safety. In my old neighborhood, the city installed a traffic circle where previously, five roads converged, and four of the streets were supposed to stop for the other street's traffic. It was pretty dangerous, even with low traffic.

Although everyone freaked out when they put it in, I think it's made it a lot safer, but people have generally figured out how to use the thing. I think you'd need some driver education test points on it, as well as some PSA thing in a newspaper or TV ad. Kinda corny, but it could get the point across.
floggingdavy

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Posted 7 months ago

i grew up in an area that had 2 circles within about 4 miles of one another, both on route 30. each had a different yield rule. One gave right of way to the people in the the circle (or square as we call them) and the other gave it to whoever was on Rt 30 when they entered. the locals knew the deal and it worked well, but for people unfamiliar with them it could become a little dicey since they werent clearly marked with the proper etiquette.

i toured europe a few summers ago and really enjoyed riding around the roundabouts. it sure beat a traffic signal, especially if i was making a left.

im all for traffic circles, but i think drivers need to be properly informed on how to react to them, especially when you throw a cyclist into the equation.
bjanaszek

bossanova

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Posted 7 months ago

I agree with Dave--the one at the Frick can be dicey because people see an intersection with no stop signs and think they can just go. The others at the intersection with Linden and Thomas, for example, have stop signs, which make them a bit more sane. Of course, the stop signs kinda defeat the purpose of the roundabout....
alankhg

bossanova

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Posted 7 months ago

Yield signs do the trick.
edmonds59

bossanova

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Posted 7 months ago

There's a super heavily travelled one in Clearwater Beach, Fl, that works really well. I think I need to go do some research.
rsprake

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Posted 7 months ago

I ride the Frick traffic circle every day and it works well enough that I wish there was one at every intersection on Reynolds.
Lyle

bossanova

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Posted 7 months ago

@rsprake - that would be awesome. Every "bike boulevard" should have tight little traffic circles and no stop signs.
rsprake

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Posted 7 months ago

Yeah! Reynolds is perfect for it.
StuInMcCandless

bossanova

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Posted 7 months ago

I think what impresses me about the Reynolds circle is the absence of signs. I went into Street View on the three Buffalo circles -- all stop signs -- and yield signs at the East Aurora circle. But Reynolds has no signs. Aside from being small and in a low-traffic neighborhood, why does this one work so well?

As to Thomas and Linden, it's less a circle and more a very wide 4-way stop with a tiny circular object in the middle of it.
sloaps

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Posted 7 months ago

Bingham (12th Street) around the market house on the southside is like that too: no stop or yield signs and no signs expressly stating which direction to go or who has the right-of-way. Although it's a square...
Steven

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Posted 7 months ago

The square at Bingham & 12th has no stop or yield signs, but it does have One Way and No Left Turn signs on all four sides. (Those nutty traffic engineers must expect drivers to somehow just remember the rules for yielding.)
sloaps

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Posted 7 months ago

doh, i take that route every morning! i guess i just don't see them anymore XD
Lyle

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Posted 7 months ago

I did see someone go counterclockwise around the homewood/reynolds circle once. I shouted at her, but I doubt it did any good.
erok

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Posted 6 months ago

DC has a bunch of traffic circles, and in my opinion, DC drivers are bigger jags than here. i have to say i did get a bit stressed out when i'd get into the circles, but that could have been my own lack of experience. there were also bike lanes in some of them which definitely helped people figure out where they are supposed to be. it didn't help make people be less of a jag tho
Lyle

bossanova

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Posted 6 months ago

erm. comment above should have read "the wrong way" instead of "counter-clockwise", obviously...

Anyway. This is way cool: official doc on roundabout design

http://www.tfhrc.gov/safety/00068.htm

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