Bike Pittsburgh

Strip mine on YRT?

this is a bit worrying, that stretch of the trail is one of it's most beautiful.

http://www.postgazette.com/pg/08104/872879-85.stm

RE: Strip mine on YRT?

I'm planning on being at the meeting.

RE: Strip mine on YRT?

Wonderful... Now when you kayak down the ohiopyle river, the yellow water will match the neon yellow kayaks that paddle through.

Not like any of our electric bills are going to go down as a result.

RE: Strip mine on YRT?

wow, that's horrible

RE: Strip mine on YRT?

awesome kordite. can you let us know what happens? i don't think i'll be able to get to dunbar.

RE: Strip mine on YRT?

Last night, I attended the PA Department of Environmental Protection meeting concerning Amerikohl Mining's application to strip mine coal near Dunbar on the Youghiogheny River. (Read the PG article here: http://www.postgazette.com/pg/08104/872879-85.stm).

The evening began with the tiny room at the Dunbar Township Supervisor's Building being filled beyond capacity. There was room for about 25 or 30 people but there were around 50 in attendance, the crowd spilling outside and into the hallway. John Kovalchuk, Permits Department Chief for the Greensburg District Office, began by indicating how the meeting would go. There would be a statement from Amerikohl, he would give his presentation and then people could break up to various tables to talk to DEP staff about various elements of the application. Attendees could also make statements for the record on tape in a private side room. You could tell that the people didn't quite understand what that meant but the meeting began.

John Stilley, President of Amerikohl, read an uninspiring and unconvincing statement about how wonderful his company was, how much they did for their employees, how environmentally conscientious they were and generally how they were all-around good guys providing energy independence for America. (Insert flag waving here.) Stilley brought a company engineer with him to go over the details of the operation. He addressed a few issues of concern, indicating that he was confident that the operation could not bee seen from the Great Allegheny Passage bike trail. He also addressed the noise issue, indicating that the railroad across the river would make more noise and the most that trail users would hear were the backup alerts on the trucks. He also commented about blasting, saying that they had agreed to limit blasting to before 4pm on weekdays and never closer than 1000 feet from the trail.

It was when DEP Chief Kovalchuk tried to begin his presentation that the trouble began. Many of the attendees wanted to ask the Amerikohl representatives questions but Kovalchuk was having none of that. It was then that everyone realized that this wasn't going to be the kind of public meeting they expected. While there was someone there recording for a news organization, nothing said during the "open house" style meeting would become part of the public record.

This presentation addressed very few issues concerning this particular mine, focusing mostly on the general process of an application. There were a few bits of information. Amerikohl was going to have to take out a $400-500,000 bond to cover the cost of site reclamation should the company skip out or go under (more on that later). He dismissed concerns that people had of the mine site abutting the northern border of Ohiopyle State Park by saying that people didn't go there anyway. That comment was met with sarcastic laughter. Sure, this is 4 or 5 miles away from Ohiopyle falls but people still use a lot of this land he seems to think no one really cares about.

He also talked about the 20 trucks of coal that was going to be hauled out of the site every day for the 18-24 months of operation, passing the responsibility of road damage, traffic and impact of that onto local municipalities and PennDot.

All though his presentation, there were numerous interruptions and while Kovalchuk stood there and patiently listened to everyone's ranting, once the interruption was over he went back to proceeding with his powerpoint presentation of the application process. People became increasingly angry that their concerns were not being heard.

Then, Kovalchuk made a telling statement that really summed up the whole evening. In response to a request for more details about the application process itself, he indicated that with all the preliminary work done between the mining company and the DEP, all the details are worked out before the application is even submitted so that 98% of applications are approved.

You heard that right, he basically told everyone right there that the meeting we were having was mostly smoke and mirrors, The fact that the application had gotten so far to have been made means that in all likelihood it was going to be approved. And the only reason the activists in attendance didn't immediately burst into flames is because most of them didn't hear what he had said, he was speaking directly to a person sitting right in front of him.

Also obscured in the shuffle was the way that our public comment recordings were going to be addressed. Anyone who wanted to comment could go into a private room to record on tape. These comments would be listened to by staff during the process but there would be no response until the application was actually approved. And then, the comment response document would be available to the public if they wanted to know how their comments were addressed (or ignored).

Finally, chaotically, the meeting broke up into groups as people went to various "stations" around the building to talk with staffers concerning individual elements of the project. I spent half an hour talking to and listening to others talk to the guy at the geology/hydrology station (whose name I did not get). One point of concern was Morgan Run.

This watercourse is somehow designated a "high quality, cold water fishery" even though there is almost nothing living in it because of acid mine drainage from a previous strip mine in the area that has gone unremediated for almost 30 years. Local watershed associations have received hundreds of thousands in grant money to finally begin cleaning up the mess and this new mining will be cutting to within a stone's throw of Morgan Run. Almost literally. I measured on the map and the mining will be within about 150 feet of Morgan Run. On the map it looks like any runoff would go right into Morgan Run but the geologist assured me that the terrain was not actually as it appears on the topographical map. He also indicated that the underlying rock strata angled away from Morgan Run so any ground water contamination would also flow away from Morgan Run. He also said that the chemistry of these rock levels were different from those that killed Morgan Run and thus wouldn't be a problem this time.

I wasn't convinced.

Flow from settling ponds are slated to be dumped into the Youghiogheny River by way of three "warmwater unnamed tributaries." I asked what made these streams warm water (and suitable for degradation) while a quarter mile away Johnson Run is considered cold water and high quality. He didn't know. Apparently, he was working from a dataset that may have been made decades ago. Perhaps by the Fish and Game Commission. This is also apparently the same source that designates Morgan Run "high quality" even though it has been poisoned to death by decades of acid mine drainage.

I spent 20 minutes with the DEP engineer (again, I didn't get his name). The map he had showed the various settling ponds and other mechanisms that were supposed to remediate the drainage. He indicated that their request for a redesign and relocation of several ponds to better manage storm runoff was readily accommodated by Amerikohl. We discussed how mining and remediation would be done in blocks. When they were done mining a block they would begin remediating that block while mining commenced on an adjacent block. If they wrecked the whole thing and then walked away, the remediation costs and thus the bond they need to cover that would be enormous. By destroying and repairing as they go, they save money by not having to have as large a bond to cover their asses. This is how a $500,000 bond can cover reclamation of a 588 acre site (only $850 per acre),

He also let me in on a "secret" that, by this time, was fairly obvious to me: the DEP is not responsible for doing everything the can to protect the environment. Their job is to ensure compliance with environmental regulations. So long as the mining company stays within the regs, they have to approve the application. DEP scientists can influence a cooperative company in creating an environmental buffer, of sorts, such as making a settling pond better, but if the company wants to dispute the issue, the regs will win out.

I went over to another station to better understand how the remediation and reforestation was going to proceed but the DEP representative for that was nowhere to be found. The map that had been left out on the table was completely useless because it had a green polygon in the shape of the permit area. I couldn't ask questions about what trees they were going to replant or how they were going to prevent invasive species. There were apparently two other stations in the garage area but they also had already packed up shop.

To summarize:

Bureaucrat John Kovalchuk, in building the meeting format the way he did, met the minimum requirements of public participation without actually having the public participate in the decision making process. The divide-and-ignore technique kept the various concerned parties from learning what others were concerned about and thus present a united front on those issues. And, even then, the fact that the application has gone so far as to be submitted means that it will be approved no matter what the public says. Mining will commence, probably before the end of the year.

However, the scientists who are part of the DEP are doing what they can to mitigate the damage. And while Amerikohl is a bunch of selfish capitalists, they are willing to compromise, at least up to a point.

The Mountain Watershed Association has a summary and are starting a petition to ensure public participation. I wish them luck but believe their attempts will fail. It was a forgone conclusion, decided before we had even heard what was happening.

RE: Strip mine on YRT?

kordite, i'm truly sorry to hear the news, but thanks for brining it. can anyone really be surprised that "this land of the free" etc caters to the wealthy while claiming to respond to the voice of the people. we unfortunately have a long and vivid history of laws being ignored and processes being overtaken so that dollars can be made. insert more flag waiving here.

RE: Strip mine on YRT?

(edit - repost whoops)

RE: Strip mine on YRT?

thanks for that summary kordite

RE: Strip mine on YRT?

yeah, thanks kordite. failing the petition, is this really the only public meeting? this is terrible.

RE: Strip mine on YRT?

It says they are taking comments for 30 days. click here to find out how to send them and some talking points

RE: Strip mine on YRT?

> is this really the only public meeting?

When pressured about whether there could be another meeting following the more standard format, Kovalchuk just sort of stood there with a smirk on his face. He was not going to answer anyone's request to say "yes" or "no" as to whether he would have such a meeting. Eventually, he conceded the point with "Put it in writing."

At the very beginning of the meeting, when he wanted the crowd to quiet down so he could start, he spoke loudly to that point once and then stood waiting and silent. He said to someone sitting nearby that he had learned the technique from a teacher. Things quickly quieted down and the meeting began.

And it's that impression that I felt during the entire time he was talking. That statement and his manner made me feel like he was an elementary school authority telling us the way it was and we were there to listen and learn. When he was interrupted by a concerned citizen, he just stood there with his hands together at is waist until the person ran out of steam and then tried to start up where he left off as if nothing had happened.

RE: Strip mine on YRT?

What a crock of shit...

Penndot ALSO is pretty much passing along the National ID card mandate from the federal government to us the same way.

The lawmakers these days just make shit up, and then pass it along to us as an already done deal that we have absolutely no say in anymore.

There are people fighting the National ID card in Harrisburg for the last 2 years but its pretty much a lost cause.

The lawmakers in harrisburg have no idea this is happening (or at least pretend to not know a damn thing about it), and PennDOT has already implemented most of it, spent the money on the technology.

Soon enough we will all be required to have a chip in our hand or forehead and will not be able to buy or sell without it, just like the damn bible says.

Any (especially any christian) who can't see that is a f-ing retard.

TexDOT in Texas has been building the NAFTA super highway for the last 5-10 years even though the state legislature is STILL denying it! You can see the god damn highway as it is being built, they have billboards all over texas.

They have had public meetings where THOUSANDS of ANGRY gun toting texans show up opposed to the highway, just to have the lawmakers laugh at them and pass it right along.

They are also turning all formerly "free" highways that were already bought and paid for into toll roads.

They are doing that here in Pennsylvania too. Look at Route 80, they want to Toll you to drive on that now.

It will not be long before 90% of your income is sucked up with bullshit taxes and fees while these assholes sit and laugh at us.

They rape our land, take our homes at will, tax us until we can no longer afford to feed our families, throw more people in prison than there are people in prison in CHINA, let chinese troops come to San Francisco and beat up a torch bearer who pulls out a "Free Tibet" flag.... Yeah FOREIGN troops are now allowed to come beat up people in our own country!!!

I mean looking at this new piece of crap being thrown in our face, how can anyone not see that Amerika is basically no different than communist China or the Soviet Union?

How much longer will it be, before this government is rounding up people, and putting them in camps (again, remember the Japanese), and comitting genocide (again, remember the american indians)...

Arrgh Im not a violent person at all but its gonna take some violence to put a stop to the tyranny we are marching towards down the road.

I don't think the Ghandi approach is going to work against a bunch of douche bags who just smirk at you and do what they feel like regardless of what the people think.

RE: Strip mine on YRT?

what really kills me is that people are just sleeping through the corporate takeover of America. Soon 1984 will indeed come to roost, and the only way to change will be revolution.
People vote for change, but our politicians don't really mean what they say...they can't get in, without selling out. Politics and the present course of America depresses me.

RE: Strip mine on YRT?

Our voices have been heard! The DEP has agreed to hold another public meeting. Hopefully this one will be in a format that makes one believe that the public is actually a part of the process.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/search/s_568198.html